Showing posts sorted by relevance for query Harry Holstein. Sort by date Show all posts
Showing posts sorted by relevance for query Harry Holstein. Sort by date Show all posts

Thursday, August 08, 2024

Some Lifted Harry Holstein Photos (FB)

 Lifted from the FaceBook, with some of my own unauthorized imagery and overlays, otherwise ruining some perfectly good images...


   I lean toward thinking that's perhaps a little round "cannonball" or some other kind of concretion in sandstone that seems to have pecking enhancing some natural concentric circles to perhaps make an apparent snake head (a horn rest just behind it) somehow incorporated into the stacked stone cultural feature. 


I have seen several suspected snake heads (and turtle heads) that have an inclusion of stone in them that triggers a person to interpret them as eyes:

 


Sometimes it seems as if some "eyes" may have "shaped" a little, pecked into the stone, maybe polished over time by ceremonial use of paint or something on these "eyes:"

 I did keep thinking that I knew of a similar sorta stone snake head somewhere that Harry Holstein's photo reminded me of and hours and hours later I thought of this one, a white quartz inclusion sort of "clad" in the boulder: 


Comparing the two:

Concretions (from somewhere):



Well, I don't know - it's just that single photo and I could be jumping to conclusions and operating under the spell of pareidolia and confirmation bias and all that, "completely bonkers."

Some more, including an Alabama "Lace Wall" as we seem  to call them around here. I suspect the same sort of "serpent stacking" in there, laying down courses as snakes (and turtles):





Snake (and Turtle)??







The controlled burn really interests me...




Monday, September 21, 2015

Prayer seats, mounds, walls and snake effigies

THE WALLS OF CHOCCOLOCCOT

Harry Holstein, Archeology Professor at Jacksonville State shows rock formations formed by Native Americans.

To this archaeology professor, those aren't just rocks.  They're prayer seats and snake sculptures.
By Eddie Burkhalter, Star Staff Writer,eburkhalter@annistonstar.com
Photos by Stephen Gross
   "Harry Holstein stood inside a room-sized circle of stones on top of a mountain in McClellan and looked out over the Choccolocco Valley below, a green rolling sea under a bright blue sky… The stones are part of a complex of stacked stone structures — prayer seats, mounds, walls and snake effigies — that spread across 45 similar sites from the mountains of McClellan to Piedmont. More than two miles of stone walls crisscross the hills in McClellan… The chair-like structure, one of many throughout McClellan, faced out over the valley below, where Holstein said young Native Americans would likely have sat to watch the sunrise and sunset as part of their "vision quests," sacred ceremonies meant to guide them on their life’s journeys.
He thinks the stone structures were built during the Mississippian period, which lasted from approximately 800 A.D. to 1600 A.D. Those natives would have been ancestors to the Muscokee Creek tribe. Similar structures have been found across the Eastern U.S., up into New England’s Appalachian mountains, but their meaning remains somewhat of a mystery...



Asked how long he’ll continue to walk out into the woods to see the stones, Holstein said "until it doesn’t become fun anymore, because right now it’s too much fun."
Then he turned and walked over a hill.
"It’s not too much further," he said. "You’re going to be amazed when you see this."
At his feet, a curving line of small rocks about 12 feet or so long ended at a large triangular rock, like the head of a venomous snake. It’s as plain as day if one knows what to look for, Holstein said.
The meaning behind the small snake effigy, and a much larger one atop a nearby mountain, remains a mystery to Holstein.
That’s what keeps him coming out into the woods, to discover and to understand, while the stones are still there to provide answers."


Full Article:
THE WALLS OF CHOCCOLOCCOT

More here too:
 http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Harry_Holstein/publications
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/265397605_PRELIMINARY_INVESTIGATIONS_PRELIMINARY_INVESTIGATIONS_AT_THE_SHELTON_STONE_MOUND_COMPLEX1CA637_AT_THE_SHELTON_STONE_MOUND_COMPLEX

Wednesday, October 11, 2017

Stone Serpents & Mexed Missages (from your television)

(Looking at something I started working on in early June 2017)
Snake Effigy by Carol Hicks
     So (back in June 2017) I saw the art work above, related to a link to a web page that included the words “Archaeologists Discover Hundreds of Ancient Stone Mounds in Alabama: Stone Mounds, Stone Walls, and Stone Snake Effigies Are Concentrated in Choccolocco Mountains” by Dr. Greg Little in the Google search preview. So I take the click bait and read what turns out to be an ad for a guide book to public Indian Mound Sites in Alabama and note that:
   “In 2017 the author visited the Morton site and several others in the area with Dr. Holstein. Since his initial reports, Holstein’s research team has found many more stone mounds and stone wall features in the area and he asserts that there are likely thousands of more stone mounds to be found in the many unexplored mountains in the region. (But then I read the next sentence, rolling my eyes if I recall correctly:) The present author has seen hundreds of stone walls in the New England states, which were made primarily by Colonial farmers. The stone walls in Alabama are clearly different from those in New England. There is no doubt that the stone features in Alabama are Native American... Some of the most impressive Native American constructions in the region are huge effigies of snakes formed from large stone piles and boulders. During our 2017 visit to the sites we saw several of these. However the most impressive is a 196-foot long snake effigy formed into a cobblestone-like, flat walkway on the top of Skeleton Mountain adjacent to Ft. McClellan. In 2004 and 2007 it was confirmed by archaeologists to have been a Native American construction.” - Alternate Perceptions Magazine - http://apmagazine.info/index.php/component/content/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=983
    So I poked around to find something else by by Dr. Greg, checking out his credibility you might say, and I find: 
Mar 1990 by Gregory L. Little
Paperback $ 11 71 $19.95 - Only 1 left in stock - order soon!
     I guess I poked around a little more for some free information since I wasn't about to buy anything I wouldn't "buy into," if you know what I mean. I had quickly found more:
    “In 2014 I introduced significant evidence for ruins uncovered off the coast of the Bimini and Andros Islands in the Caribbean Ocean. The attached images, are present, unedited, and reveal complexes, and pyramidal structures on the bottom of the ocean. My guest, Dr. Greg Little, working with a grant from A.R.E. made numerous trips to the Caribbean based on the readings of Edgar Cayce, and uncovered startling evidence of high civilization. We'll also discuss the mound builders connection to Atlantis and the pyramids of Central and South America.
   Gregory L. Little, EdD, part Seneca, is author of the authoritative guide to America’s mound sites, Illustrated Encyclopedia of Native American Mounds & Earthworks and co-author of Mound Builders. Both he and his wife (Lora Little) have been featured in documentaries on Discovery, Learning Channel, History Channel, Sci-Fi, MSNBC, and National Geographic.”

    And I remember thinking about TV documentaries, how to spot reliable sources, and how I'd love to see Harry Holstein and other people who seriously study Ceremonial Landscapes get some publicity - and funding -  especially from any of those entities featuring the UFO guy (with the exception of the Sci-Fi Channel) in documentaries that seem to be sending out mixed messages, or "mexed missages" quoting a former president of the United States of America, promoting "junk science" that many people, including myself, think are just a little more than just "tinged" with racism.
   And I thought about how many times over the years that I've attempted to talk seriously about Indigenous Ceremonial Stone Landscapes with some really credible and knowledgeable people whose research has influenced me and wondered how many just assumed I was going to leap into UFO's or Giants or some of the other very silly sort of things that sell much better than than what is more likely the truth about these stones I'm so interested in...

    But still I remember being stuck by that illustration, a Snake (or Great Serpent) Effigy, the jewel on it's head emphasied and the stone "seat" placed nearby and included in the wonderful illustration by Carol Hicks - and those words that I had underlined:  "The present author has seen hundreds of stone walls in the New England states, which were made primarily by Colonial farmers. The stone walls in Alabama are clearly different from those in New England."
     Dr. Greg, I suspect, was clearly either not looking at the same "stone walls" that I look at or really hasn't looked at all. Maybe he had been relying on any of the many works on "New England Stone Walls," based on folklore rather than any real science or close observation...

   Along with the bare bones of the post, I found I had done a little doodling based on Hick's drawing:


Carol Hicks does link to  a version of Harry Holstein's paper:
and so did I, back in 2015:

Sunday, January 22, 2023

Former Big Row of Boulders (Part 3)

 Thanks to Matt Adams and Derek Gunn for permission to use your photos!
And to Rochelle Prunty as well for an enlightening variation of serpent stacking!

  So it was back around December ‎(Friday the13th) ‎2022 when I just happened upon some photos at the Facey Book page of the North East's Historical Stone Sites Investigations and Explorations Group:






   Group administrator Matt Adams wrote: "A few of us went to site yesterday before the bad weather rolled in. The site has been called an “Indian Fort.” There we saw the absolute largest stones any of us have ever seen making up a stone wall. This fact alone had us skeptical that it was an “Indian fort”, the stones were essentially large boulders. So large in fact that we doubted even a team of the largest oxen could have moved them all into place. We figured heavy machinery MUST have been involved."

       The photos immediately reminded me of a spot I hadn't visited in years, a little over two and a half miles from home, up in a nearby Nature Center and Land Trust. Especially so, it seems, when Mr. Adams let me know that the boulders were "a second layer on top of an older wall (or row of stones). The huge boulders near where I live were also placed on a low row of stones as well, in this land trust where many Indigenous rows of stones and other features still remain "hidden in plain sight" where they were placed at some undetermined time in the past:

And yes, after searching around I found this photo above is my only surviving image.
Well unless you count this version of the same, but with an attempt to convey that it may be a snake petroform or effigy:
  The boulders on top of the row of stones could be said to be the uppermost course of stones, laid down as a snake effigy, very similar to this fine image by Rochelle Prunty that is a variation in which the stones don't grow gradually smaller behind the head - much like a big lump in the body of a snake that has swallowed something larger than it's head:

Note well that neither the row of stones in MA nor CT show scars from being moved by the steel blades of a bulldozer or any of those other machines people moved stones around with in the 20th century.


 The two posts previous to this one sum up my attempt to return to this Ceremonial Stone Landscape site feature which I figured would be a good way to compare the two sites with the large boulders on top of the smaller cobbles and smaller boulders. I assumed I would be easily able to do this, but instead I found there were no longer any stones remaining on the Land Trust landscape (unless there are some in the tangle of briars growing over the push pile created since at least 2016, judging from images from Google Earth):

     Speaking of "push piles," Dr. Harry O. Holstein writes about a similar lack of modern heavy machinery (such as bulldozers) evidence in undisturbed sections of the snake effigy - an action that leaves a distinct imprint that even Mr. Tom Wessels would agree with - missing in both MA at the alleged Indian Fort site, as well as in Woodbury CT before the stones were removed, but apparent at the site in Alabama where the effigy had been disturbed in the recent past:

"Since the linear stone wall is located directly on the edge of the ridge crest and directly behind the bulldozed area, it is unlikely this feature is the result of recent earth-moving activity. However, in most areas adjacent to this linear feature, there is no evidence of machine tracks or push piles. Also, the wall is constructed of loose stone quartz cobbles similar to the serpentine pavement and does not contain any quartz pebbles or intermixed soil typical of the recent push piles. This wall appears to be comparable to the linear stone wall features found at other stone structure sites throughout northeast Alabama, thus lending credence to the possibility that it may be of prehistoric origin..."

Preliminary investigations at the Skeleton Mountain site, 1CA157, Calhoun county, Alabama

Date: Jan. 2009

https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?p=AONE&u=googlescholar&id=GALE|A200132376&v=2.1&it=r&sid=AONE&asid=507a7772


This one boulder (in MA) has at least three distinguishing characteristics shared by other Turtle Effigies:


In Woodbury CT, this is only one of several turtle effigies that make up the larger snake effigy: 
Note the shape of that turtle shell above and Mr. Gunn's photo below:

So:
     I may have some other images on a DVD/CD or even Floppy Disc and if I (or my heirs) ever do locate them, I will certainly be happy to post them up (or leave instructions to do so in my Will and Last Testament)...
     In the meantime, I lifted a few more Adams/Gunn photos of yet another third site that may be familiar to those students (or critics) of the Indigenous Ceremonial Stone Landscape, as the phenomena  is becoming known as, which the astute observer may note some similarities as well as some differences of variation in these three sites that are most likely Indigenous creations...





And of course, the most photographed stone of the bunch, the one which Diane Dix pointed out had a bird-like figure pecked into it, back when the book Manitou was "in the works:"

 
Jump to the next part of this little story: